Emily Grandstaff-Rice, FAIA, is senior associate at Arrowstreet, a Boston-based architecture and design firm. She has experience with a broad range of academic, hospitality, institutional, and commercial projects, and her innovative design work reinforces that a building is more than its shell; it is an experience.
As a frequent speaker and writer on the future of architectural practice, Emily is fascinated by how technology, the social economy, and environmental urgency are addressed in architectural practice.
She has demonstrated continued and significant service to AIA, including leading the national diversity and inclusion conversation as chair of the Equity in Architecture Commission. For more than a decade of her career, Emily has advocated for emerging professionals: conducting original research on professional development, chairing the AIA Continuing Education Committee, and serving as 2014 president of the Boston Society of Architects/AIA.
In this episode we talk about:
How exposure to architecture and architects are a key aspect of having the next generation realize that this is a career option
On being motivated by proving someone wrong
The top 3 things you need to know when designing shark tanks
How Emily loves the process of learning and all the different ways in can be expressed through architecture
What motivated Emily to get involved in the Boston Society of Architects and the AIA, and why she decided to run for a Director-At-Large position for AIA National.
How the BSA or AIA are a great way to develop professional skills and beta test ideas or even fail without repercussions.
How AIA National has been dealing with the current political climate
Motherhood, expectations, and how life has different on-ramps and off-ramps and sometimes it’s okay to coast.
You kids need you at different stages, and at different times.
Bringing kids to the AIA Convention
Advice for young professionals: Get over your fear of public speaking
Emily’s Mentor Shout-Out: Helene Combs Dreiling FAIA, former AIA President
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Catherine Meng: What first made you want to be an architect?
Emily Grandstaff Rice: That's always an interesting question because I think I have a little bit of an imposter syndrome when I hear other people's answers, where they say they played with Legos ever since age four, et cetera. I think for me, it was more of a crescendo rather than a direct line. I was always into drawing. Actually, I famously got in trouble when I was five when I was drawing on my bed sheets when I was a kid. But it wasn't until middle school when my entire class had to take a mandatory drafting class and it came really easy to me to the point where I think I was actually made fun of because it came so easily to me. Then, I was very fortunate to meet Eugene Mackey who was a fellow at AIA St. Louis and the Head of Mackey Mitchell Associates. He would come to our school and do an Architecture Day where they would rent a bus and drive us all around St. Louis to see things and to sketch.
When I was about 17, I had the opportunity to go to Carnegie Mellon for a summer. I was trying to decide on art or architecture and for some reason I chose architecture. Once I was in that studio environment, I knew it was something that really got me excited and I loved thinking about all the different aspects of architecture. I was totally overwhelmed, don't get me wrong. Then I just pursued it with a dogged passion and applying for schools. I ended up entering the Bachelor of Architecture Program at Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute in Troy, New York.
I didn't have a relative who was an architect. I hear that a lot in other people's origin stories. When we think about the next generation, exposure to architecture and architects are a key aspect of having kids realize that this is something that they want to pursue.
CM: Yes. I think that's so important. I think a lot of kids or young people don't even know that this is an option for them. Just exposure makes a big difference.
EGR: It's huge.
CM: My parents had one-- We had one family friend who was an architect and he did single-family homes in the suburbs. He tried to convince my parents to tell me not to go to architecture school, but of course, I didn't listen to them.
EGR: It is interesting – I think when people who are in the profession are negative about it and speak about that negativity to future architects or to others, it always gives me a little bit of sadness. I had a similar situation. I can speak about this now because my uncle has passed away, but I had an uncle who said to me, "Why would you ever become an architect? You're never going to make any money. Furthermore, you're a female; it's just not a good fit." Part of me just wanted to prove him wrong too. It's hard to recover from some of those early impressions, especially if they're negative.
CM: Have there been other moments along your career where you've wanted to prove someone wrong?
EGR: Oh totally. This is like my entire being, I am really motivated by if there's a challenge ahead of me to try and work through it. I'm humble enough to know that not everything is surmountable. Some things are out of my reach but I try and that's one of the things that motivates me; call it gamification or whatever you want. If there's a big challenge, that's part of why I like being an architect. Every project is a little bit like that. If it was so easy, anybody could do it? We're problem solvers, and yes, I'm competitive.
CM: I feel like you have to be - this is not really a good word - but you have to be kind of a nag to be an architect.
EGR: Yes. I'll put a more positive spin on it. I'll say you have to be attentive. You are so detail-oriented that sometimes your attention to details far outweighs other people's and you're just reminding them of that.
I would say it's more than just being a nag. It's about being detail-oriented and advocating on behalf of your clients. Because that's really what you're doing, you're using your knowledge base to advocate the best product for your client.
CM: What aspect of the whole architecture process do you like the most?
EGR: I have learned that architecture is really a people sport. It's less about the drawing and the technical and more about how you interact with people, whether it be on a team or whether it be with a client. That's something that really excites me, is working through the process, and helping build a coalition of many people to create this, whatever this product is going to be.
I also really enjoy programming. Part of it is because of the people side of things, but working through the messiness of you have this aspiration, this vision - how do we then start to put that into sizes of spaces, configuration, that messiness before the building really gets solidified. Right now I'm working primarily in public work. That's the point, where you have to count for every single square footage and funding and where things go and that drives some people nuts, but I can do that.
CM: Do you have a favorite program or project type out of the things that you've worked on so far?
EGR: I'd say probably education, but that means many things to me. For me, museums and aquariums was informal education. I've worked on higher ed, university buildings. Right now I'm working on a pre K through six. I have a building that's in construction, K through five, in Harvard, Massachusetts. I love the process of learning and ways in which that can be expressed in architecture.
CM: I imagine it'd be so cool to design an aquarium but I also feel like there's so much technical stuff that you don't realize.
EGR: Yes. Here's your 90-second primer on aquarium. You got to get really good with waterproofing details.
CM: Oh yes!
EGR: Right. There's really two ways to waterproof a tank. Either you're doing fluid applied or you're putting crystalline in the concrete itself. You also need to order your tanks or your acrylic - because aquariums aren’t made of glass, they're actually made of acrylic - you have to order them really early because there's only two manufacturers in the world, in the world, that make really large scale acrylic
One is in Japan, one is in Colorado. It's very difficult for a public bid because they always ask for three and you're like, "But there's no third." You have to order your tanks really early. You get good at calculating the weight of water.
Every tank requires a life support system. The background of how water gets filtrated and cleaned and distributed and how you add things to it, that's a whole subsection itself. I think probably the craziest thing I ever did was I had a client that needed a shark holding tank. Usually, I'll detail the tanks themselves, but I don't do the nitty-gritty of the tank, but we had to do this really fast. I had to get on the phone with some guy in Florida and get a 12-foot diameter shark holding tank with these specific windows and yada yada yada. I was so proud when this tank went in because it was really a race to the end, but yes, I've designed shark tanks.
CM: That's so cool. I think you should start all of your professional bios with, Emily Grandstaff Rice designer of shark tanks.
EGR: Yes! At least that's a good hook with the kids.
CM: Well, it works for me too!
CM: Aside from all of the actual architecture stuff, I know you're really involved with the AIA as well as the Boston Society of Architects and all these other professional organizations. You are currently a director at-large for the AIA board, is that correct?
EGR: Correct, yes.
CM: What motivated you to get involved with the AIA and then eventually run for a director at-large position?
EGR: Probably earlier in my career, I felt like there was the day to day stuff that I did in my office, which was good, but I needed more. Part of that was creating connections within the Boston Society of Architects, the BSA. It started small, working with the membership committee, working a little bit with women in design, and as you get to know more and more people, having that as almost a side hustle allows you to develop leadership skills that you can't necessarily earn in your office, if you don’t have the opportunity to in your office.
If I wanted to learn how to moderate a panel, that was something that I could very easily do on the BSA side, and just say, "Hey, I want to know more about mentoring. What if I got three really well known Boston leaders and talk to them about how mentoring fits within their practice?" I literally did that. That was an opportunity that gave me exposure to other people within the community but also allowed me to practice my speaking skills and ask questions to themselves. That was a thing that really appealed to me and that I could try things out. If you do things at the BSA or the AIA and they work out great, but it also was a great place to beta test and almost fail too because the repercussion for that is pretty low. It's not like you're losing a client or your performance goes out the window.
For me, it was on the job leadership training in a unique way, and I had gotten involved with the BSA board. Again, you joked about the challenge part of it. I was like, "I'm going to run for the board." I think I always had in mind that I would lose, but I didn't. That started a trajectory of me working on the BSA Board leading up to in 2014, when I was elected President. What was unique about that was that I was 38 at the time in 2014 and being a President of an AIA chapter at that age is quite normal in some of the smaller areas but for the BSA at the time that was abnormal. I just wanted to prove that I could do it so that, frankly, if there was someone else in their 30s who wanted to be president, they could look and say, "Well, Emily did it, so I can do it so much better."
To have that conversation about the next generation and why it was important, the average age of an AIA member is 51 right now. I haven't checked the statistics for the BSA lately, but I can tell you it's probably pretty similar. At that time I was getting frustrated that I don't have to be a principal, I don't have to have a shareholder title to have those positions within the organization. It also, I think had bred the conversation that we need to be multigenerational, and talking about the future of the practice, not just those who have the privilege or the time to contribute, how can we make sure that there are opportunities for those of all ages and perspectives? That was the BSA. Then I had done a little work with the Young Architects Forum, but that coincided with the recession in 2008, and so I really couldn't justify doing national work during the recession, but when things got back up to speed, was right around the time where I was known by some within the national circles and really the opportunity to lead the Equity in Architecture Commission was the opportunity of a lifetime to really make an impact. That got me back in 2015.
I've gone really fast over my history- but that was a year-long exploration into how the institute was dealing with issues of equity, diversity, and inclusion. At the end of that, I had to make this big pitch about recommendations, about making the institute more diverse going forward. I had done this presentation at the board of directors, and I sit down and the next thing on the agenda was that they were announcing the slate for the next elections, and I hear three male names for three positions. You've got three positions going uncontested, and the three candidates were great candidates, but at the end of the day, I was so fired up after talking about why we needed to have more gender parity and underrepresented, and I was like, "Are you flipping kidding me?"
CM: Like I just talked about this!
EGR: For better, for worse, I got-- When you talked about challenge earlier. I had a frank conversation with my office and said, "This is something that I'd like to do, because if not me who? I thought I could do a great job and also would continue some of the conversation from the Equity In Architecture Commission. We all know the answer, I won, and I'm finishing up my second year of my third-year term. That's how I got to the AIA board, and it's been different than I thought it was going to be, but it's been incredibly fulfilling.
CM: What did you think it would be like and what has it turned out to be like?
EGR: I'm glad we're not doing the video because I think I just stuck my tongue out.
EGR: I thought it was going to be like the BSA board, so the BSA board, it's very conversational. We bounce ideas off of each other, and when I first got on the board two years ago, I think we were just learning how to do that. I've seen remarkable growth over the last two years, but it's a lot more formal than I thought it would be. I'm okay with the fiduciary and the governance side of it but I think I didn't realize how much of that there was at the national level.
My impact is continuing the equity conversation at the national level, but also to provide perspective from those who aren't principals in their firms and to really think about where the institute is going long-term. We do great work it's just sometimes-- This is a fair criticism, people will say you move too slow, but on the flip side of it, we're representing 94,000 architects, so we take consideration very carefully for things.
I'm extremely proud of the code of ethics revisions that happened in the last year within sexual harassment, diversity and sustainability. Extremely excited about where we're going this year and next year focusing on sustainability and resilience leading into the 2020 elections. There's a lot of stuff on our plate, but I'm doing my stint here and who knows what's next.
CM: You can relax for a while before you take on another board of director role somewhere.
EGR: We'll see.
CM: This is a pointed question coming from someone sitting in San Francisco, but I can understand that they need to be somewhat politically neutral, but how have you guys been dealing with just the assault on facts and science in the last couple of years as it relates to the issues related to the AIA, architecture and the profession?
EGR: I'm going to default to something that hits more close to home, which is I'm a parent and I'm a parent of a nine and a 13-year-old. The politics of today are complicated, even me explaining it to my children because there are certain values that I hold and I think are incredibly important that aren't necessarily reflected in the political conversations that surround them. They're also entering civics conversations at school that I don't necessarily have control over, and so there's that. I struggle with that just on a personal level in my breakfast table for crying out loud when they read the newspaper.
Then I'm from Missouri, which is historically red state, and yet I live in Massachusetts now, which is as blue as it comes. I have relatives in other places that will remain nameless. There's people within my larger family that have completely different political views than I do. That's of course, a conversation as well of saying, at the end of the day, what we find common are the values that we hold dear even if we can disagree of how people are living those out. I say that because I think with the AIA, it's a similar situation where we believe in the power of the built environment, we believe in equity and civil rights. We believe that we are in a urgent climate crisis and we have to act on that. We believe that buildings should not take away people's human dignity. There are differing political views on those values. We have tried to be as clear as possible that that is what we believe in, that's what we're going to stick to, and really leave it up to others to, how I say this, spin it however they want, but at the end of the day, we know this is the right thing to do because it's the right thing for the built environment and the way we see architecture as contributing positively to people's health and wellness. It's only going to get more tricky.
I have no illusions of this complication going away, but the way- and this is how I personally see it, is that when AIA sticks to its values and talks about what contributes to a healthy environment and how that affects people, we're on the right track. I know that that also frustrates some of our members who want us to take an even stronger stance. It's the way that I've been able to describe it that is as true as we can be towards the fundamentals rather than pulling into one side or the other.
CM: No, I totally agree with that. Like you said, it's hard enough to figure out how to navigate these conversations in our own families, let alone trying to corral the whatever, 94,000 AIA members to agree or make on certain views on things.
EGR: Yes. To be honest, I think, even a color change in the logo would probably set some off. It's like public work. You just have to sit with it and listen to people and validate their concern because at the end of the day, it's when we have a plurality of voices that we're at our strongest.
CM: I think part of that I imagine is you also just have to be okay with some people just straight up not liking you or not agreeing with you and then there's nothing you can do to change their mind, but you're trying your best to do what's good for everyone.
EGR: Agreed.That works in our families, too. You have to be okay with the fact that not everyone is going to like what you do.
CM: Oh, yes. What do you think you want to do next, for the AIA I mean?
EGR: I feel a little like some political appointees or whatever saying, "Are you going to run for office?" I think I will likely go for AIA presidency at some point but I don't know when. I think that's a trickier question for me because it requires such a commitment of your time. I think that's something that I've thought about but I'm not willing to commit to quite yet.
I really enjoy the work that I'm doing at my office and so I want to continue with those projects. I get a lot of fulfillment out of mentoring others and having them succeed. I would love to see more women apply for fellow, I would love to see more people of color and underrepresented in AIA leadership. If I can share my experience and tricks or whatever it is to get them there, that's something that I really think is worth my time and moving forward. It's interesting I've taken a really big focus on my health lately for various reasons. I think I never quite appreciated the damage that pulling all nighters or stressing myself out really, really-- I thought it was a badge of honor and it's not-- Why? Why are we doing this? Because architecture culture expects it? Ways in which I can make small changes within my office, or even communicate that to others outside of my office that work-life balance is huge, not just when you're in your 40s, but also when you're in your 30s or 20s, or, frankly, any age. If I can use my influence to change that conversation, that's time really well spent. What's next for AIA?
CM: I think you should run for president. You heard it here first!
EGR: Yes, there you go.
CM: You mentioned earlier that you have a nine-year-old and a 13-year-old. How have you been able to balance doing work stuff, AIA stuff and then also raising two kids? I ask this because I have a seven-month-old and so I'm like, "Please tell me there's a way that I can do more than just take care of my baby at night."
EGR: There's totally a way. First off, congratulations.
I know that you're getting back into the podcasting on a regular, so that's great. Today's my nine-year-old's birthday. This morning it was a little bit of a crazy town just getting that launched off and I still need to get her a Garfield comic book and somehow a birthday cake.
There's a great book that I read last year, and at first I dismissed it because I didn't think it was healthy enough. It's by Tiffany Dufu, D-U-F-U, and it's called Drop The Ball. It was a great conversation because I think we put too much pressure on ourselves as women in the professional world, that we also need to be the best mother, the best groom parent, the best whatever it is. She makes a really solid argument that sometimes some of the pressure is coming from ourselves and our own expectations of what motherhood should be.
How do I do it? I have a fantastic partner who is also an architect, but also picks up a lot of stuff that I don't do. I joke, "I don't do laundry." I'm awful at laundry. We found the right fit between the two of us. That's number one. Your kids need you at different stages, at different times. When I had my son first, the first year was just a total blur and Carol Wedge, she's the President of Shepley Bulfinch, said to me, "Emily, it's okay to coast." In other words, because you're so used to going at such a fast speed, or high-performing, for you to slow down feels like you're almost at a stop, but you're still moving forward.
Of course, I didn't really take that advice to heart at the time, but I'm glad that she did because it allowed me to understand that life can have on-ramps and off-ramps, and that you just need to think about it in different chunks. I'm in this great stage right now where they can walk themselves home from school. I'm in a whole new phase.
How do I dp AIA? There were times literally when my son was young and I would have to leave an AIA event because the babysitter fell through. You just have to acknowledge in your day-to-day where's the priority, but my kids come with me to the AIA Convention, which--
CM: Nice. More people should bring their kids.
EGR: They should, they should. It wrecks my social life, but my kids are there and they participated. That's part of their experience. My son went to so many board meetings as a baby. Just being realistic that if you want me to be involved, this is what comes with the package. I also did flex time for a while, just to make the finances work with daycare because it was so expensive. Both my husband and I, we worked 40 hours a week, but we worked long days and short days, so that we could be home with them two days a week.
Finding tricks or whatever and making it work. I guess, I would say this to employers that, be flexible because not everybody needs the same thing and they don't need it in perpetuity. Things change and the key to retaining really great employees is to meet their needs where where they are, and they can bring their best selves to work.
CM: There's so much that you just said that resonated with me that also was very inspiring so thank you.
EGR: It's also a little crazy sometimes. We have a very family friendly office but they also have had those moments where you have to say to them like, "This is office behavior and this is not office behavior." I do keep a bag of old Hot Rod cars at my desk because there's girls or boys just having mysterious toys. If a parent comes up with their kid, I'm just like, "Here, take the cars." It helps and you pitch in with other people as well. I don't have family in the area so, being able to rely on people that you meet at school or your kids are friends with is huge as well. I don't do it alone, I have a network and that's very important.
CM: Now it sounds like your oldest is old enough that he can watch the younger one.
EGR: He is but he's also riding the bus and he's not 100% into the cell phone. He's not into social media or anything. He just thinks it's a way that I can track him but he tracks me too, but it's all good.
CM: At the next conference we should have a parent's happy hour.
EGR: That would be great.
CM: We might find a room that's enclosed and have all the kids, let them loose and then there'll be a bar on the corner for the parents.
EGR: You make a really good point, which is when you're in it, you feel alone especially if you're the only young parent in your office but there are so many others like you, male and female. How can we work with each other and share resources to realize, one, this is a great profession, and two, this can be a great profession with kids?
Judith Nitsch, who's the president of Nitsch Engineering, reminds me that not everybody has kids. Sometimes it's taking care of aging parents. Sometimes you need time off your own mental health. Whatever it is that we have, we all have lives beyond sitting in front of a computer and drafting and thinking about ways we can bring our whole selves and also have work integrate with that. I can go on and on and on.
CM: I'm going to end with the lightning round questions. The first one is what is one piece of advice you have for someone just starting out their career?
EGR: Get over any fear of public speaking quickly. It will serve you throughout your career.
CM: Definitely. They should teach public speaking in architecture school to be honest.
EGR: I wholeheartedly agree I. I did Toastmasters at MIT only because I didn't know anyone at MIT. They thought I was awesome because they didn't know very many architects. Little did they know. But, yes, it's a great skill.
CM: What is something you find really inspiring right now?
EGR: I went to the Women's Leadership Summit two weeks ago, three weeks, whatever it was. I think what I found inspiring was that more than half of the participants, attendees, there were first time. I think this conversation about making the profession more diverse and inclusive is reaching a really interesting point. That inspires me right now.
CM: What is the funny or interesting fact about yourself?
EGR: Oh my god, I had to give-- We played two truths and a lie at the AIA board meeting, the board orientation, and I'll give you my two truths. One of them I thought was innocuous but people thought it was really weird. I was a magician's assistant when I was 10 years old. I levitated. I got locked in a box. I never got sawed in half. That was like, I did that to help out a friend. EGR: I materialized out of paper, and then I'm really into genealogy. I've been doing it since I was a teenager. I think the weirdest thing was that I found out that my husband and I are 13th cousins.
CM: Wow, interesting.
EGR: Everybody's a 13th cousin to everybody else but the fact that I can actually document it is- Yes. I made the connection, and then I walked away from the computer. I'm like, "I'm done. I'm done."
CM: What was the lie you said in the two truths and a lie?
EGR: I think I said I made a table out of driftwood. Everybody knew that was a lie.
CM: Really?
EGR: But I used to do woodworking, anyway, whatever.
CM: I think because the other one sounds so out there that they're like those ones have to be true.
EGR: That's true.
CM: Then the last one is a mentor shout out. Who is someone who has been a great mentor or inspiration to you that you'd like to give a shout out to?
EGR: I was thinking about this. I would probably say Helene Combs Dreiling, who is our previous AIA President. Helene has just been a constant. I got to know her in 2014 when she was AIA president, and that woman is always in my corner. She's amazing.